Author Topic: Bill Gates wants to raise chickens in Bolivia, but commies don't want him!  (Read 9680 times)

jj2007

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Bill Gates himself: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Why-I-Would-Raise-Chickens
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If you were living on $2 a day, what would you do to improve your life? .. I would raise chickens.

To underline his ambition, Bill Gates announced to donate 100,000 chickens to poor countries, including Bolivia.

Unfortunately, the leftist government of Evo Morales refused Bill's generous offer, with the ridiculous and completely irrelevant argument that "the South American nation already produces 197 million chickens annually" :(

hutch--

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Maybe they don't want the footprint of an American chicken there.  :biggrin:
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mineiro

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Bill Gates is not wrong from my point of view. He's trying to help others. Who have said was Ministers but ask to people.
Hey Sir Gates, you can send these chickens for free to Brazil. I appreciate some of them on my terrain. Chickens can weed the soil, their poo is good to soil, reproduce easily, low cost.

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The IMF predicts that Bolivia's economy will grow by 3.8 percent in 2016, making it the best performer in South America.
Not sure but Chile is from my point of view the best country on south america. My second choice is Uruguay, I put my head down as a sign of respect to José Mujica.

Years ago I was under linux influence, I said bad things about Gates. But after think a bit I get the true. I have done only one job to linux systems, while all others to windows. So, why I will speak bad things about windows if I get my money from windows system. Today I simply accept both systems.
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rrr314159

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Bill Gates is not a bad guy, in fact he's a good guy. Good programmer; friendly, shy sort of person. At least, when he lived in Boston, in 1970's.

It's not about him, it's about the system that lets these idiots steal all the money. The foreign policy of the US is no longer run by the State Dept, because they have far less money to throw around than Gates, Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Koch brothers, etc, etc.

Admittedly in South America these mega-crooks make better decisions! It's stupid foreign policy to send 100,000 chickens to Bolivia. But have to admit it's much better than 100,000 bombs, or marines. SA is lucky; trend in US foreign policy in its favor.

But in Middle East it's the opposite. State Dep't used to "send chickens" to Arab countries - libraries, schools, so forth. (I was involved in that personally, peripherally.) Now, under the influence of these "nouveau riche", we send nothing but bombs. It's destabilizing Middle East and Europe. Refugees, terrorism are direct consequence of US policy. And, as Karen Carpenter used to say, "We've only just begun".

The mighty power of the USA has fallen into the hands of a tiny group of mega-billionaires, with their own peculiar agenda. Look out.
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mineiro

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Hello sir rrr314159; at the same time I agree with some of your words and disagree with others. I respect your concept.
I lived on biggest cities of Brazil, São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Brasília, Belo Horizonte. Now I'm at inner, agro zone or rural zone. Sir, have persons that does not know how to read or write, they can just speak. I'm teaching for free 3 persons into this city, and I buy all necessary resources with my own money to help others because goverment does not care. You know why? Because Brazil need increase their HDI, so persons like these types that I say reach University and the world look with good eyes to Brazil.
So, put yourself into that bodies, what job you can find? I can't teach computer simply because they cannot recognize symbols. So, into this context a free chicken is good, have eggs, clean terrain.
If Gates send chickens here is better put a gps on each one of them, because have a lot of corrupt politians. :lol:

The point is, on Brazil, a rich corrupt agro guy (josé carlos bumlai) is being investigated too into an operation done by federal cops. So why this guy does not share their resources with population? This is why I liked Gates point of view. Brazil is not different from Bolivia, Colombia, Peru, Argentina, Paraguay, ... .
They have tried bolivarianism these years, a Conference done on Europe years ago. This is not the solution.
Hey, I'm a good president, I will duplicate your money (salary). The traders will duplicate the prices too. Who is good and bad?

I understand your point of view, that guy of bank, that guy of car, that guy of train trails, that guy of iron. I know a bit about USA history, north versus south, expansion to west side, Mexican land taken. But the aspect is, Hey Evo Morales if you dont like help just say that, we are mature, we can understand. But critics it's immature answer. Now, ask to people to see the answer, we are talking about food and all the world need food.

I don't like Zuckerberg, I prefer Eduardo, a brazilian guy that helped facebook be this giant.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

rrr314159

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Chickens are fine. I've known plenty of nice chickens. But I'm wary of outsiders sticking noses in other's business. Here's a good example.

When I lived in Haiti there were little black pigs running around everywhere. They lived under the shacks, ate anything lying around, were pets for the kids, and food for everybody. They'd lived on the island for as long as anyone knew.

When Bill Clinton was president he decided those little black pigs were no good. It started with some prion disease like "Mad Cow", iirc. Someone at Harvard did a study and found those little black pigs were terribly inefficient; consumed a lot of food for the meat you got out of them; hosted ticks and lice, which carried human diseases; and so forth. It so happened that his brother owned a lot of big white pigs. These were much more efficient, produced better and cheaper meat, were disease-free etc. So Bill Clinton signed on to a program to kill all the little black pigs and replace them with much better, big white pigs. Cost 150 million US taxpayer dollars. Chicken-feed (no pun intended).

The money went to the Harvard professor's brother, with a nice kickback for the prof. We killed all the little black pigs. Devastated a lot of kids, and families, who treated them as pets (except when it came time to eat them). Replaced them with "much better" big white pigs.

But those white pigs died like flies down there. Weren't used to the conditions, wouldn't eat garbage. There was no place to put them, they couldn't fit under the shacks. Make a long story short, it was a horrible mistake. Clinton said it was the dumbest thing he did as president. I don't know what's happened today; probably they've imported little black pigs from Africa and are trying to pick up the pieces.

The only good news, that Harvard professor and his brother made out well.

This is what can happen when you barge into other's life styles with lots of bucks and no sense.

The above is a true story - except for the Harvard professor's brother. I made that up. But, no doubt, one way or the other, the prof and his buddies got a nice cut of that 150 million.
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hutch--

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If I get what is happening, its a choice for Bolivia of not being dependent on any form of foreign aid that has strings attached and this unfortunately this has been the case in Central and South America for a very long time. I don't see any malice in Gates and he and his wife have been doing reasonable charitable work in 3rd world countries for some time now. If I had any criticism of Gates it would be the corporate model that his assumptions are connected with.

Of late I have been reading analysis that says that the world is starting to move away from the corporate model of "Free Trade Agreements" as they have been designed to benefit the massively rich at the expense of the rest of the world. While some of this is a reaction to China, the damage to a wide range of economies has seen job losses, industry shutdowns, a collapse of the middle class and an unemployment pool destined for serfdom. This is without wars over resources like OIL where the infrastructure of entire countries (Libya and Syria) are being destroyed.
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mineiro

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Nice history sir rrr314159, yes, you take the point, Haiti. This history can be changed to real persons, today a children cannot play in the sand because father and mother bans this. On my time everyone played on sand and we create immunity. Brazil send help to Haiti too.

Yeah sir Hutch, I have read about a french guy, he have created the cure to 3 diseases. They have tried to kill that guy. If does not have diseases, so we dont need medical doctors, we dont need pills, dont need drugstore, lost of many jobs, ... . I'm talking about this because oil is not only to cars, have many pills that need resources extracted from oil.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

jj2007

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Chickens are fine. I've known plenty of nice chickens. ... Clinton said it was the dumbest thing he did as president.

My friend, you cooked up that story, but I hope Monica isn't offended 8)

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By August 1984, Haiti was declared free of swine fever, and," Lawless writes, "of pigs."

The whole point of Chicken Gates is that Bolivia's chicken population would increase from 197000000 to 197100000, i.e. by 0.05%

rrr314159

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My friend, you cooked up that story ...

Not guilty. Here's one source: https://hondurasoye.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/exporting-misery-to-haiti-how-pigs-rice-and-us-policy-undermined-the-haitian-economy/

Quote from: Jim Ridgeway
Another infamous “aid” story involves the destruction of native pig farming in Haiti, following an outbreak of swine fever in the late 1970s. As described by Paul Farmer, the physician and anthropologist legendary for his work among Haiti’s poor, pigs were once a centerpiece of Haiti’s peasant economy, providing a reliable source of income and an insurance policy against hard times. The hardy Haitian creole pigs seemed to be remarkably resistant to swine fever. But American agriculture experts feared that Haiti’s pigs could spread the disease to the United States and destroy its massive hog business, and bankrolled a $23 million “extermination and restocking program.”

By 1984, all of Haiti’s 1.3 million pigs had been killed. USAID and the Organization of American States thereupon announced a plan to replace the Creole pigs with brand new Iowa pigs – provided that the peasants committed to building pigsties to US standards and demonstrate they had enough money to buy feed. Even the peasants who could afford these “free” pigs found that they couldn’t flourish under Haitian conditions. The fragile kochon blan (“foreign” or “white” pigs) frequently fell ill and had to go to the vet; they wouldn’t eat scraps and required expensive feed; and they had few litters. Soon, the project was abandoned – leaving Iowa hog farmers enriched, and hundreds of thousands of Haitian families without a key means of survival."

I was just going by my memory and this differs a little. I'm rather certain there was a Harvard prof involved, and as I remember 150 million (US taxpayer) total cost. This article doesn't mention those little guys were black, but that I'm sure of! Tripped over enough of them in my time. At least I can say: the poor Haitian people themselves saw the event roughly the way I describe it. The rich made a few bucks off it, might tell a different story. I also would like to admit I never saw one of the white pigs, was told all that part later on, by a rather biased Haitian. Finally, I didn't bother to find a quote from Clinton; look it up, it's definitely on the net somewhere, because that's where I saw it, in recent years.

The source you quote, and some others I glanced at, seem to be trying to downplay the disaster. Admittedly the source I give is biased anti-US but his account is not overdone. Anyway if you have to choose between my memory and the internet, recommend the former.
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rrr314159

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As long as we're on the topic, the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation announced couple decades ago 33 billion in aid to Africa. I suppose not much of that has been sent. Let me explain - again just from memory - what happens when you dump that kind of money into a poor country.

Right off the bat, as much as 90% goes straight into the pockets of the rich 5% or less. In Africa these days I imagine (not from personal experience) half of that buys weapons. But regardless - the GDP of these countries might be 100 million. When you dump 10 times that much money on them, with no planning, no oversight, no faintest idea what you're doing, you cause massive destabilization. Whoever managed to get your ear, if they're not El Presidente, will be El Presidente a few months later. And execute all their former enemies.

Meanwhile - you'll say - at least the poor got some food. I was on food-disbursing expeditions into the countryside a couple times, knew American observers. This was in Haiti. Well the soldiers defined a class of the poorest poor, called "Rien" - meaning "nothing". They got no food. Were turned away at gunpoint. As it was explained to me, better that they die, why waste food on them? Some portion of the actual food (not just the bucks) went to rich people, most went to their servants and poor people who supported their political party. Those who didn't were "Rien".

In the case of Gate's African aid money, if 10% actually went to the people he thought he was helping I'd be surprised. And, if he sent as much as a few billion, undoubtedly that's a significant reason for all the weapons floating around those countries, killing innocents everywhere. I bet Gates knows this now, but it took him years to realize it. I figured it out a lot quicker, being "on the ground" but still it took a while.

You think those people are "innocent savages" happy to get food and stuff, grateful to the wonderful Americans. No: they're just like you and me! They're awake and aware, cynical, looking out for themselves and their tribes. They think Americans are idiots, and know how to play the game if the idiots want to hand out money. Really, no matter how poor they are, they're almost identical to everyone you know in Italy. What would your friends do if they could get billions just by sucking up to some idiot and pretending to be innocent, grateful, friendly, respectful? Well - that's exactly what Haitians, and Africans, do.
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caballero

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Bill and family give an 1% of their fortune to charity, maybe less. How many of us do the same?
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jj2007

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My friend, you cooked up that story ...

Not guilty.

Guilty 8)

I referred to your "Clinton said it was the dumbest thing he did as president". We all know the dumbest thing he did was letting Monica carress his cigar...! Few are aware that the evilest thing he ever did was to cover up the cigar story by bombing Iraq, but in any case, the Creole pigs died long before his presidency.

As to your "90% goes straight into the pockets of the rich 5%": absolutely. Not all of that goes to weapons, there is also a significant portion going to bridges and nuclear power stations and the like that nobody really needs down there, but yes, "aid" goes to the rich.

A problem that could be easily solved by transferring aid to the people via their M-Pesa accounts. Just in case there are any Brexit or Vodaphoney fans here (source):
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The original concept behind M-PESA was a project in neighbouring Mozambique via the operator M-Cel. Researchers funded by the UK Department of International Aid and Development (DFID) had noted that people in countries like Uganda, Botswana and Ghana were spontaneously using mobile phone airtime credits as a way of transferring money to relatives. (This idea emerged in several other locations as a bottom up approach – the first recorded was in the Philippines where the widespread availability of mobile phones and coverage and the huge geographical dispersal across hundreds of islands created the conditions for such emergence). Their research in 2002 led to the first credit-transfer scheme offered by M-Cel in 2004. Gamos (the research consultants) then proposed using a similar scheme to help repayment of microfinance loans in Kenya and with DFID support began working with Vodafone in 2005.

So, a dollar a day to each and every African citizen, that would be around 400 Billion bucks per year, guaranteed to help the people, not the rich. It would only require that the donors wanted to help the people 8)

And btw, further in-depth research reveals that our friendly Mr Gates is aware of the concept, and supports it; in his own words: "In Kenya M-pesa is being used for almost half of all transactions."

rrr314159

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You're right. Turns out he apologized for rice and food policies instead:

BILL CLINTON: Since 1981, the United States has followed a policy, until the last year or so when we started rethinking it, that we rich countries that produce a lot of food should sell it to poor countries and relieve them of the burden of producing their own food, so, thank goodness, they can leap directly into the industrial era. It has not worked. It may have been good for some of my farmers in Arkansas, but it has not worked. It was a mistake. It was a mistake that I was a party to. I am not pointing the finger at anybody. I did that. I have to live every day with the consequences of the lost capacity to produce a rice crop in Haiti to feed those people, because of what I did.

Still I didn't make it up, honest mistake. I (must have) seen this article and mistakenly thought he was talking about the pigs. Now that you mention it of course it wasn't his presidency. I've actually told that story a few times and never noticed my mistake.

Notice what he is apologizing for: feeding the poor rice! You liberals just don't get it. Welfare is bad, whether it's rice or M-pesa's.

It's just as stupid and counter-productive as giving thoughts to people who don't want them.
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jj2007

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Welfare is bad, whether it's rice or M-pesa's.

Rice is bad, bucks are not. Think about it...